School Vouchers > Logan Utah, Cache Valley, Bridgerland, Local Community Forums, News and Information > Bridgerland, Logan Utah, Cache Valley Utah

Unanswered Active Topics

Forums Search Members

Forums > Local Personal Posts > IN DEFENCE OF THE CONSTITUTION

Subject: School Vouchers

Prev Next

You are not authorized to post a reply.

Page 2 of 2

Author

Messages

Fiery Darts
Posts:135

Senior User
Online Status: User is Offline

06/15/2007 8:17 PM
if I do I must still pay for public education at the same time. It's hardly an easy choice for many people who can't afford the double cost. This isn't entirely true. You don't pay for the public education that you use, at least not directly. What you pay is your portion of the total support of the public school system. This is paid both by people with children in public schools and by people who do not have (and often have not ever had) children in public schools. In fact, this is a major flaw with the school voucher system. The benefits received (directly) from public schools by a given family are not paid in by that family, so it doesn't make sense to give them back their money. It wasn't their money to begin with.

Carissa
Posts:14

Junior User
Online Status: User is Offline

06/16/2007 7:04 AM
This is paid both by people with children in public schools and by people who do not have (and often have not ever had) children in public schools I know and I don't think it should be that way. I could understand taxes for the land and building (like it used to be) but everything else should be paid by those who choose to use the services. If that were the case there would be much more local control. Schools wouldn't have to worry about any federal "bribes" in order to get their funding. For example, No Child Left Behind -- schools are not required to comply, and yet if they don't, most of their funding would be cut off so most have no real choice. In fact, this is a major flaw with the school voucher system. The benefits received (directly) from public schools by a given family are not paid in by that family, so it doesn't make sense to give them back their money. It wasn't their money to begin with I agree. That's why it's such a mess! The poorer families that vouchers would go to probably don't contribute much by way of taxes. However, one could make the argument that those funds are there for the school age children in the community and so families feel entitled to them. (Although people have been going to private schools for years without any compensation). It's just not a fair system in my opinion and more and more parents are noticing that as they become unhappy with some aspect of their children's public school experience. We should go back to the way it used to be before the schools were totally "free" in the first place. Is there any good argument against doing this? I have never heard one.

Carissa
Posts:14

Junior User
Online Status: User is Offline

06/16/2007 9:44 AM
What are your opinons about this website? http://www.schoolandstate.org/home.htm I noticed Ron Paul signed their proclamation which states "I favor ending government involvement in education".

Fiery Darts
Posts:135

Senior User
Online Status: User is Offline

06/16/2007 9:15 PM
What are your opinons about this website? http://www.schoolandstate.org/home.htm? The site feels a little paranoid, but not nearly as much as many other similar sites. A lot of their arguments try to imply causation from mere correlation, and even the correlation arguments can be challenged. Ultimately, it has a definite libertarian foundation and as such it appeals to those who favor libertarian approaches and sounds naive to those who do not. I find their map on the main page quite interesting. They show 26 of the 51 political divisions in the country, stating that the number of independently schooled students in the country is greater than the total number of students in these states (and DC). This is essentially meaningless because they don't really define the term "independently schooled" and they chose the 26 least populated regions in the country (which tend to be larger geographically, making the map look fuller). Students who have had good science and statistics courses would know that these are common tricks to misrepresent data. (I've been disappointed before at how well the top science students in the country read charts and graphs. I ended up winning a competition over it, but that doesn't diminish the fact that I thought that a trained monkey should have been able to do flawlessly at it.) I noticed Ron Paul signed their proclamation which states "I favor ending government involvement in education". This is an interesting quote. Ron Paul is a member of the House and a candidate for the presidency. As a congressman, he has little power (although far more than you or I) to change how much government involvement there is in education. As the President, he would perhaps wield more influence but still be bound to execute the laws that are passed by Congress. In either case, he is only in a position to influence the involvement of the Federal government in education. States have a constitutional right to meddle to their hearts' content in education. If you want the government out of it, you should probably take that up with your state legislators. (That is what the voucher people did, and it looks like they almost succeeded. They might still prevail if the majority of voting Utahns are willing to spend tax dollars to fund private schools. If they do succeed, then we'll have to see whether this results in tax dollars going down a black hole of unaccountability or else private schools being brought under the control of the state just like public schools are controlled by the Federal government.) Back to the thread... We should go back to the way it used to be before the schools were totally "free" in the first place. Is there any good argument against doing this? I have never heard one. I think that there are two reasons why you haven't heard any good arguments for going back to the way things were before the schools were totally "free." First of all, no one is seriously discussing the idea of reverting to private/parochial schools (in fact, I was in Newfoundland 10 years ago when the province converted from church-run schools to public schools). Second, I haven't heard any truly convincing arguments that schools were that much better back in the good old days. For example, consider the Salinas exam, often cited as an example of how much better 8th graders were educated. As Scopes points out, "What nearly all these pundits fail to grasp is "I can't answer these questions" is not the same thing as 'These questions demonstrate that students in earlier days were better educated than today's students.'" (I'd recommend reading the rest of their response which explains a few of the reasons why the Salinas exam is not evidence of a failure of modern school systems.)

Carissa
Posts:14

Junior User
Online Status: User is Offline

07/01/2007 12:23 PM
I thought I'd post Ron Paul's answer to a question about education : Muckraker Report: One place where race plays a significant role today, I think, is in education. Our inner city schools, many of which are predominately black, are in dismal shape. What do you think can be done to alleviate the situation? Congressman Ron Paul: A good place to start would be to get rid of the bureaucratic control of education by the federal government, which has grown to gargantuan proportions in recent years. Many people in America don’t realize that most of the money they send to the federal government for education is never returned to the local schools. It’s extremely inefficient. Far less than half of each tax dollar is spent on our children’s education. Federal funding also comes with strings attached. The more money we give to Washington, the more power we give to education bureaucrats to decide the policy. Local schools are forced to carry the burden, even if it means accepting one-size-fits all education policies that aren’t in the children’s best interests. I’m for returning the power to the people to decide what’s best for their children in terms of education, and I have a steady track record in Congress of supporting legislation that seeks to do just this. http://www.muckrakerreport.com/id447.html In my opinion, this is a necessary first step in improving schools!

You are not authorized to post a reply.

Page 2 of 2

Forums > Local Personal Posts > IN DEFENCE OF THE CONSTITUTION > School Vouchers

ActiveForums 3.7